In this episode of What's at Stake, Penta Senior Partner Bryan DeAngelis sits down with Christopher Hayward, Policy Chairman of the City of London Corporation and Co-Chair of the British American Finance Alliance, to examine one of the world's most influential economic partnerships: the financial relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom.
Chris unpacks how this centuries-old alliance continues to shape global markets, even as it faces mounting pressure from geopolitical uncertainty, rapid technological change, and increasingly fragmented regulation.
They discuss the Transatlantic Taskforce on Markets of the Future, a new effort to reduce cross-border friction in areas like capital markets and digital assets, and what is at stake if the US and UK fail to stay aligned. Chris also outlines three forces reshaping finance: artificial intelligence, digital assets, and cyber risk, and why both countries are competing to lead while managing new vulnerabilities.
As global risks intensify, from cyber threats to climate pressures, the conversation underscores a central question: whether governments and industry can move beyond coordination in theory to sustained alignment in practice, and what that will mean for the future of global finance.
[00:00:00] Bryan DeAngelis: Welcome to this week's episode of What's At Stake. I'm your host Bryan DeAngelis, a senior partner and head of the DC office here at Penta, and today we're gonna be talking about one of the most important economic relationships in the world: the longstanding partnership between the United States and the United Kingdom, and particularly where it comes to the financial and professional services industries.
London and New York and the entire US remain two leading global financial centers, and as markets evolve the strength of that transatlantic relationship. Is only going to continue to play a critical role in shaping the future of global finance, innovation and economic growth. So I'm excited.
Today I have joining me, Christopher Hayward, policy Chairman of the City of London Corporation, and he is co-chair of the British American Finance Alliance. Chris serves as a leading voice for the UK's financial and professional services sector. Works closely with policymakers and industry leaders on both sides of the Atlantic, all to strengthen collaboration and competitiveness.
Chris, really excited to have you on. Welcome to What's At Stake.
[00:01:17] Christopher Hayward: Thanks very much, Bryan. It's really good to be with you.
[00:01:19] Bryan DeAngelis: Chris, let's just start with your role and the City of London Corporation's role. To be honest, I think what I do a lot on this podcast is folks think they understand something and don't really, truly appreciate the important role that, that everyone plays.
So tell me more about the work you are doing particularly representing one of the world's leading financial centers.
[00:01:44] Christopher Hayward: Thanks very much Bryan for that. I mean, the role of the policy chairman of the City of London Corporation is the political leader of the corporation, and the corporation is the governing body.
Of what we know as the square mile, which is of course the financial district of London. And in that role my job is to convene on behalf of the United Kingdom Financial and Professional Services sector and to represent those views to government. And I do that by discussions with the Treasury, with the Chancellor Exchequer, with the Department of Business and Trade.
And because we're not a trade association as such, we're not paid by members to lobby government, but we are paid to represent or we're not paid while we're, we are there to represent their views to government. And the second aspect, which is equally important is the international role of the city of London.
As you said, as a global financial center. And as far as United States is concerned, we are really delighted that we've got a very efficient and professional US office based in Washington DC with our own United States Managing Director. And that acts as a really important bridge between the city of London back here.
In the United Kingdom. And of course Washington, New York. Indeed, the whole of America. And as you you say in particular, New York is a global financial center. And when I go to the US as I will be in next week, I'm going to Washington because that's where the hill is.
That's where the regulators are,
[00:03:19] Bryan DeAngelis: Right.
[00:03:19] Christopher Hayward: where the think tanks are. But of course, I'm also New York talking to the financial institutions and banks as well. And I think our, our role really in, in a global world. We are an international financial center. We are not just responsible for for a domestic finance or domestic hub.
This is where risk is managed. This is where we know considerable amounts of. International financing and funding passed through the square mile. So I see our relationship with the United States as being one of total partnership, one of a great rooted relationship. Okay. We're a little older than the United States.
We're a thousand years old. But nevertheless, we have, and we share values that are inseparable. And I still believe, notwithstanding sometimes the odd political challenge, we do have a really special relationship with the United States.
[00:04:14] Bryan DeAngelis: And a very longstanding relationship. You mentioned the corporation itself dates back more than a thousand years, but I was struck in doing some of the prep for this episode.
You all played a role in even the American Revolution, which seemed interesting. And obviously we have a. Big moment coming up in a couple months here with our 250th. So we are only a quarter of the age of your actual company. But tell me more about that. 'cause I found that really interesting.
[00:04:45] Christopher Hayward: It's a fascinating historical fact in reality that, but the city of London and the. States frankly, already had a well established relationship before American Independence in 1775. If you go right back that far, which I have to confess, I can't personally remember the Continental Congress wrote directly to our Lord Mayor and to the livery of London, asking the city to help mediate tensions with the crown and explicitly appealing to our shared traditions.
I would call them of liberty, representation, and the rule of law. And so we did just that, that letter, incidentally, historically, your listers might be interested to know, was signed by John Hancock, the first signatory on the Declaration of Independence. So this relationship with the United States, which goes back before then, as I say, is something which has continued to mature and be of increasing international relevance ever since that time.
Throughout the conflict, it's fair to say that the city often took positions that were distinct from the British government. They weren't always the same as the British government. We criticizing the continuation of the war and defending constitutional principles, if those words sound familiar, that's because what's, that's what's been happening pretty recently as well, from what I can see.
[00:06:07] Bryan DeAngelis: That's right. Let's fast forward. It's been a, obviously critically important relationship as you mentioned a few moments ago. There's certainly been its ups and downs and we are in a moment of a lot of geopolitical uncertainty. But I, for one, and I think a lot of our listeners would argue this relationship is probably more important, more critical than ever.
Both because of what we're seeing happening around the globe and just the, incredible kind of innovation and changes to the markets we're seeing. Your part of the, and I think helped launch the transatlantic task force for markets of the future for. What is that focused on? What are we looking at there and how is that collaboration hopefully going ?
[00:06:54] Christopher Hayward: Well I think it's going really well and I think it's a really exciting initiative, if I can say so, because what it does in the task force is it exists really to tackle fragmentation. And particularly if I could say so in capital markets and digital asset regulation and the latter digital assets is something that we are seeing a real explosion of.
We're almost in a digital big bang, as I say, and I've always said in the United Kingdom's case, we really want to be leading that alongside our friends in the United States. So what we don't want are frictions, and a big part of my job traveling the world are to work, to iron out frictions, financial frictions, because today firms to operate across borders, but regulation is often designed nationally, and that's where we want to make sure that we minimize the frictions in order to increase the trade and the interoperability.
Because otherwise it creates unnecessary cost, complexity and uncertainty as well. So what does success look like? For me it looks like closer regulatory cooperation that supports innovation. Same time of course, managing risk responsibility aligned approaches to digital assets, as I was saying a minute ago.
Yep. And clearer pathways for cross-border capital raising. So really in summary, it's really about ensuring that global capital markets keep pace with technology rather than being constrained by, let's say, outdated frameworks.
[00:08:24] Bryan DeAngelis: Which I fear happens all too much and I'm sure just as much over on your side of the Atlantic.
We are here always trying to play catch up to what seems like innovation and technology. You actually recently wrote a piece, you outlined several technologies that you see having a big impact on the future of finance and markets. We talked about digital assets, but certainly ai. Every morning I'm reading about some massive innovation and change.
I'd love, just from your expertise, what are you looking at as some of the biggest areas where we're gonna see. Maybe some monumental shifts because of this technology.
[00:09:04] Christopher Hayward: Bryan you've talked about a couple of them there, but I think there were probably three really major ones in total.
Firstly, artificial intelligence. AI is going to transform our world is going to transform financial services. I'm old enough to remember when I thought that the worldwide web was the thing that was gonna transform the world, and in one sense it did. Then. But we've moved on beyond that now, and AI is something that is moving at a pace of light.
It really is. It's changing daily and it's really quite difficult to keep up with that change and the opportunity that I think it offers us. Digital assets I've touched upon. Financial services are going to be governed in a whole new way going forward, and it will be a digital mechanism.
Tokenization will be incredibly important as well. A and frankly, you've gotta be in there leading that. Our countries, our two countries have gotta be in there leading that revolution. So I see that as another major area. And of course the other area which we all worry about, and I do certainly in my role, is cyber resilience.
Yes. That is another issue, which could be transformative as well. So the challenge I'm guessing is that we want to ensure innovation happens. With trusted frameworks, because otherwise the whole infrastructure of financial services, your side of the Atlantic and mine can be really threatened.
That's why centers like London in collaboration with the United States, I think are so essential to achieve that.
[00:10:35] Bryan DeAngelis: Yeah I couldn't agree more. We're recording this right at the end of the IMF World Bank meetings here in DC and there's been. A ton of talk about risk and resilience. Those three technologies you just mentioned are all so connected.
What's happening with AI and you've seen the meetings with anthropic and the government and the largest banks here in the US. Risk, cybersecurity, resilience will be a, will have to be a big focus. And it doesn't know borders, it doesn't know oceans, I know you're working on this.
You all have the I believe it's the Global Risk Summit, the first time coming together here soon. Tell me more about what you hope to accomplish there and, hopefully, leave me encouraged that folks are coming together and collaborating on this stuff together.
[00:11:26] Christopher Hayward: I really wanna leave you encouraged on that subject, Bryan, I can tell you because the bottom line is that London is the global hub for specialist risk and insurance.
And that capability is vital to resilience on both sides of the Atlantic. They what we wanna do is to ensure the insurance. And sophisticated risk management, if I can put it that way. Are, don't not, don't just absorb shocks, they actually enable investment innovation and growth.
So I want to strengthen the ecosystem in that sense. So what's the global Risk Summit about? It's basically about moving from discussion and interaction. And I think that's really important to stress. We are bringing together business leaders, insurers, and policy makers. From across the globe to address the risks that now shape economic and decision making in the E economy.
So it'll will be about the things you and I have just been talking about today. Ai, cyber threats, geopolitics, my goodness me. What a world of geopolitics we live in at the moment.
[00:12:25] Bryan DeAngelis: Yes.
[00:12:25] Christopher Hayward: Clearly the most dangerous and frightening time in so many ways, and also so impactful upon world economies as we are, as we're gonna be seeing on the back of the current wars that there are around the world.
So what we want to do is to bring people together to discuss these. And also, let's not forget, and I know this isn't necessarily something that some of the leadership in the United States believes at the moment, but there's the whole climate catastrophe threat, which I personally believe is fundamental and sustainable finance and transitional finance is essential to addressing how do we get the necessary funds from the global north to the global south where the real crises are, how do we help businesses to transition to a new scenario on the back of climate action because, I know there are climate deniers out there. I'm not one of them. I believe it's really real, and I believe that finance has a key role in addressing it.
[00:13:22] Bryan DeAngelis: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm gonna go off script a little here but it begs a question, as a thousand year old corporation seeing these both near term and very long term threats, like what we're dealing with in the climate and the global south, how do you and your corporation navigate these big changes in geopolitics that we go from a Biden administration to a Trump administration with a Trump administration before that, and not to mention what we see in obviously the Middle East, Russia, Ukraine, China, it's. It's a lot that could distract at any time from the big goals.
[00:14:00] Christopher Hayward: You're absolutely right.
But look Ryan, we've been here before with the US president Trump took the US out of the Paris agreements in his first term of office. So we shouldn't be surprised that when he comes back after a spell of Democratic presidency that he repeats the same thing. But I believe that what we've gotta do is to try to continue with that drive forward.
And from what I understand, as I talk to you as businesses. A lot of US businesses are doing just that. Maybe they're not doing it in the big profiled way they might have done under the previous administration. But most businesses in, in the UK, in the US indeed around the world recognize this. I go to China from time to do business on trade and particularly.
On sustainability and sustainable finance. 'cause China the biggest emitters in the world and yet they have some of the most innovative solutions to, to look at. That's amazing. So we've gotta keep focused. I believe on the things we know are long term are important. Politicians of all backgrounds.
We'll come and go, but crises have to be driven and led by those of us who feel there's a major responsibility on us, and I'm a politician, and I feel there's a major responsibility on me as the City of London politician to stick with the agenda.
[00:15:15] Bryan DeAngelis: Yeah, that's very in line with the council. We've been giving clients over the last, not only two years, but probably four to eight years of there's a business imperative.
There's a moral imperative for some companies and I would say society and yeah, the communications imperative of how you talk about it and how that helps you support your goals may change, but the work. Continues, and I've been encouraged to, to see a lot of that. But so let me ask, as you think of that, as we are obviously President Trump will have a limit on his term.
We'll have a whole new leadership. Again, looking forward maybe what are you doing with the Washington office or others to build a relationship that lasts, continues to last and strengthen. Beyond, even administration terms, congressional terms, politics of the day.
[00:16:07] Christopher Hayward: Bryan, it's a strange fact that when I took over the leadership of the City of London Corporation four years ago and I asked my team, I said, I want you to take me through our global locations and I wanna understand where we've got offices around the world and their purpose.
And we were running through various countries where we have a, an established presence. And I kept waiting for the team to say. And of course the number one priority is the United States of America, our biggest trading partner. And they never got to that subject. And I said to tell me about our presence in the US and to be blunt, we didn't have one.
And I was absolutely committed from that moment forward to establish a US office, to establish a US team, a US managing director, because what we need is continuity. I may well go over as the political leader two or three times a year for meetings. So will the Lord Mayor of the city of London.
But frankly it's this is a 365 day a year relationship.
[00:16:59] Bryan DeAngelis: It sure is.
[00:17:00] Christopher Hayward: It's not something we pick up and put down. We have to continue to grow that relationship. And I've appointed a brilliant new, managing director in the United States with a great track record in the United States, and it's his role in partnership with me and with those of us back here in the city of London to get that message out there, day in and day out, and to be a collaborator with the United States and with the United States financial services, and of course the organs of government.
[00:17:29] Bryan DeAngelis: I know him well. And I will say, I don't think you could have picked a better person for that role. I'm glad to hear
[00:17:34] Christopher Hayward: We share that view, Bryan. We share that view.
[00:17:36] Bryan DeAngelis: Great. I know we're almost out of time. Let me I don't want to call it a lighter subject, but let me switch gears a little bit.
As we head towards our 250 anniversary, we also have a big moment where the king will be visiting the United States and the president, and that's. Obviously been a big part of the relations President Trump went over and met with the royal family I think not too long ago. This is usually a very interesting moment for Americans.
We're not used to, obviously the king but what should we be paying attention to? What should we be thinking about? Both from a financial perspective, but even just the broader US UK relationship.
[00:18:18] Christopher Hayward: Look, I think the state visit that's coming up is in incredibly important. It appears to me from everything I read in the media and see in the media.
That your president rather likes our king?
[00:18:29] Bryan DeAngelis: Yes.
[00:18:29] Christopher Hayward: Perhaps a little bit more than he seems to like our prime minister at the moment. But we won't get into too much detail on that. But the one thing that kings and monarchs do and heads of state do is to transcend that political discussion and that political debate and what the state visit will do.
And may I say not only. Will the king be in Washington? But at the same time, so will the policy chairman of the City of London. I'm
[00:18:51] Bryan DeAngelis: not critically, yes,
[00:18:53] Christopher Hayward: I'm not gonna suggest it's two visits by two sovereigns. It's one sovereign and one policy chairman, but nevertheless I'll be there at the same time.
And I think what we wanna watch out for is the way in which this will reinforce the strong cultural, social. And of course political links between our two countries. It will reinforce the UK US relationship in a way, which I think is incredibly special. And I'm so delighted that the king has accepted the invitation.
Yes, it's a challenging time. Yes, we know the issues that are on the table in the wider political sphere, but our monarch, our sovereign, is amazing and he's able to transcend these, and I'm sure, and I hope that the president of the United States will do the same thing.
[00:19:35] Bryan DeAngelis: I do hope so myself. I couldn't agree more just given the stakes and everything going on, how important it is to have this moment, even if some of it is symbolic and what comes with a state visit, but it's.
A critically important time for both our countries, that relationship is more important than ever. Here's to that being a great trip for both the Monarch and for yourself and I hope very productive. Chris, I really thank you for joining us today. We're excited to see what you're doing here in Washington and more broadly in the US and with your team.
So thank you for the perspective on the future of the financial world, particularly the US UK relationship. And I hope you'll come back again soon as we have more to update on the work you all are doing.
[00:20:22] Christopher Hayward: Bryan, it's been an absolute pleasure to chat to you and thank you so much for the interview.
[00:20:26] Bryan DeAngelis: Of course. Thank you. And to our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode. As always, remember to like and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can follow us on X at @pentagrp and on LinkedIn @Penta Group. I'm your host, Bryan DeAngelis. Thanks for listening to What's at Stake.